MIDI Translator converts expression maps to grids?
No. But BMTP can receive raw MIDI data from Mackie when channels are selected in Cubase and then trigger grid changes in MGP. And BMTP can send mouse movement commands to Windows to access the list of articulations in Cubase’s Key Editor in under 20 milliseconds.
I’m not getting all the fuss about converting EM’s into grids. This is a relatively easy job as most EM’s use the same remote switches i.e. C-2 C#-2 etc. to trigger articulation changes. So one generic grid with buttons sending these key switches will pretty much cover most orchestral instruments’ EM. Then we just have to label the buttons accordingly.
I think we are talking about different things. It’s cool you have the workaround - the Mackie protocol is something you could get away with using because you aren’t a developer; a developer would have to license it because it’s not open source. It’s out there but it’s not meant to be free to commercial developers. So there’s that.
But also, in my experience key switch layouts vary wildly unless you are just using Spitfire. There’s no crossover with VSL or Orchestral Tools or OrangeTree or Performance Samples or countless others - and if you use something like Samplemodeling or the Infinite stuff it’s even more different because of the performance aspects. If you use Babylonwaves - and I’ve used them for years - they are great and a time-saver, but [edit] sometimes incomplete or just differently conceived than I would want them to be, which I understand because they are not here to do an exhaustive standardization of all possible articulations.
I used ComposerTools Pro for a good while, and it also had some track recall capability - but you were committed to that screen layout, which I used comfortably but I always wanted more customization. They also had an expression map converter which was very handy, but it only worked with that framework.
So what we are talking about here in this thread is a self-contained solution, with no outside apps other than the server app, that turns expression maps with all of their customizable aspects - names, groups, attribute vs. direction - into potentially editable and customizable control grids. Stuff that looks cool and is made to be conducive to the performing and composing process. What’s not to love?
Also cool that you have a use case that works for you - so everybody gets to do what they want. MIDI Translator Pro seems really useful to me.
Names and Remote keys are the only thing that will be carried over from the XML file to the object AFAICT.
Still not entirely convinced that Przemek spending “hundreds of hours of development effort” on this ‘Object’ thing is really necessary. I prefer to have things laid out according to my preference. IMO, the grid switching + track tracking would be enough. Although I already have my Mackie and Bome workaround for that anyway.
Yes, the complete end–to-end solution for both platforms is quite complex and time-consuming to develop. So we will launch the track “tracking” feature first - should go to beta this month together with the new Cubase MIDI Remote control device for the selected channel. I have already contacted @dragsquares and we will think about creating an articulation pack. We will also wait for Steinberg - there are some rumors that the are about to change the articulation maps.
Only been asking for this for hmmm… A DECADE!!!.
Reasonable to wait and see what they will do.
It would be very useful to bring across all of the expression map settings - many of the more flexible maps also use cc’s for various purposes, such as note length or attack time, and some make use of velocity in key switches as well.
I like things my way also, which is why having the import in some form is good - it often takes less time to move things around than it does to make them. I advocate for a generic grid made from the expression map as well as the ability to import into one of a few preset configurations to start from, as well as some available already-made grids for various instruments.
Some really impressive examples and ideas here. Are any of you familiar with composer tools? I use this alongside Metagrid, but am encouraged to see that metagrid is now beginning to havew the same capabilities. ANd with it being aso design orientated could improve ob CT, which is now unupported and uses Lemur.
The one thing CT does which has been unique is the track orientated auto change to provide a full template for the library and instrument you are using at that moment. As you move around your template CT follows, switching library and instrument as required. It acheives this with an exchange of midi messages, Each track (or group of tracks sharing similar articlations) needs to have an identifer, then CT provides a matching set of keyswitches, control sliders and surfaces, pads etc.
If you can achieve this now with Metagrid, the possibilty for improved design pages linked to common shared XY pads and CC controllers (which I already have with MG) is something very desirable.
I used CTP for quite some time. I got a lot done but, as you referred to, there was little support. Lots of good features but you were confined to that form factor with very little customization of appearance apart from coloring parts of some buttons. And you had to use their plugin, which didn’t work for all kinds of tracks. The fellow who released CTP recently bought the Lemur software code and was talking about a huge rewrite, but his lack of responsiveness and iffy documentation from before kind of put me off of that.
It seems like MGP will cover all of that ground and more here shortly, and just as it is I prefer the approach overall. If I recall correctly I’ve even read there is a plan for a harp controller object as well. I spent some time making things in TouchOSC but though I respect folks who go there, I really don’t have time to program in that depth. Same for Open Studio Control. To me the unifying design ideas in MetaGrid Pro make it much quicker to work with and far easier to get consistent results.
Also I hear what you are saying about common CC grids for things, and that’s a really great option to have. But I also like when instruments have their own personalities and emphasize different parameters to make the use of that particular instrument more fun and engaging. In the way that you want an XY controller for some of the newer NI libraries but you want lots of specifics for SWAM or SampleModeling or Vwinds, and for some reason (maybe echoing their GUI) I often like having the VSL stuff shown as bright and clear and I like the OT Berlin stuff more rich-looking.
This thread is called Articulation Switcher: Cubase - brainstorm
But somehow, thus far, there is little mention of ASSIGNING those articulations to events in Cubase. I spend a lot more time assigning different articulations to events than I do simply playing a certain articulation on my keyboard. The whole thing with programming orchestral libraries is the enormous number of articulations that can be assigned to events. So I would suggest drop the ‘Auto generate Grid Object’ thing and maybe work on a solution that helps the user assign articulations, not just play them.
While I’m here, a feature request that I have is to ‘Display Menu Items On Incoming MIDI’
So I press one button and a certain Menu button displays its list. And also an option to pin the menu open would be great.
I feel like all of these features are needed - it doesn’t seem to be an either-or. But you’re right. Too bad Keyboard Maestro doesn’t seem to address pop-up menus in a reasonable way and too bad that Steinberg doesn’t make some sort of addressable number array for articulations - and that the Logical Editor can’t see articulations, only cc messages or program changes that reference them. That would be a huge game-changer. That gives me a thought, though - until that all works, I wonder if using step entry for overlaying/placing articulations with MetaGrid Pro might work. Will have to see about that later today.
Of course it didn’t because since I use attributes it has to be wedded to a note. But Keyboard Maestro appeared to work a little - I recorded a click (relative to window corner) and drag for the art menu and had this sequence respond to a cc (since KM doesn’t see program changes) that was in the same macro sending a program change to change the map’s articulation with the remote. Not so much a thing that anyone else could use because of differences from screen to screen. But it worked.
Here is a demo of what I have setup with Bome. Instantaneous articulation assignment. And I’ve set this up for 60+ instruments with as many Expression Maps.
That’s impressive @JTB . Can you explain how it is possible to apply the articulation to a selected event? How do you access the Articulations menu and select the item to be applied?
It’s done with mouse movements and clicks. Each articulation in the Expression Map uses 3 mouse move and click Translators in Bome. One to click the menu, one to select the articulation and one to return the mouse to the centre of the monitor.
I setup one generic 60 articulation Expression Map with Translators to access each of the 60 items in the Key Editor list. And then adapted it to all my 60+ instruments. I’m on a 1080p monitor. But it is easy to adapt these Translators to a 4K if needs be.
Similarly to Keyboard Maestro, then. A generic item selector (the best way - kudos) and a database of numbers. Cool.
This proposed feature is my dream! I used to use Composer Tools Pro which, with a lot of setup tweaking, did something similar to this, but I still had to manually build each iPad setup. Being able to just use Babylon Waves expression maps and have MGP switch dynamically when I select a track with that expression map would be SO helpful! I even had a moment of toying with the idea of switching to Logic just for the ability to do this that you’ve already worked out there, but there are numerous reasons I’d prefer to stick with Cubase. So count this as an enthusiastic vote for continuing in this direction!
I as well have been using CTP for years. However as I have finally been updating my template to get rid of anything still using rosetta. Unfortunately the CTP plugin that auto-selects the proper iPad layout when I click an instrument track in Cubase, is not going to be (according to the developer) updated to a native M(x) plugin.
I have hundreds of custom sample library layouts that I would love to port over to MGP if there was a way for Cubase to send a message to MGP to pull up the correct layout for whatever instrument track I have selected.
I also don’t know if I would like things “Auto-Populated” from the articulation maps either. I use CC32 for all my articulation switching (derived from Spitfire’s UACC method). I’d much rather program all my own buttons and faders and simply have MGP bring up the appropriate layout depending on what instrument track I selected.
Yes, MGP 1.6.5 can now switch grids based on the selected tracks in Cubase. There will be a dedicated video available within a day or two.